Curse

End · Jul 22, 2010, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

When large groups of foes ball up to eat their daily dose of splinters then it is a fantastic skill ....That doesn't happen though, which is why it doesn't see much use on my bar. Splinter weapon is overrated for the same reason.

Take a few secs...pull them well...While I don't use my ranger much...I have never had to much of an issue with balling them.

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The cycle is two seconds, other non-ranger Elite AoE's generally don't have limitations on the amount of foes hit and they tend to come with more damage without needing to be buffed by half a dozen other skills.

Uhmmm...name one...that can deal as much damage... to an unlimited number within the area...with such a short cycle time and low energy...that doesn't require them to not move for the time of the effect...

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You can't have it all, GDW requires another human player to cast it on you (unless you bring a barrage hero), SY a warrior secondary, the conjures a /E secondary and splinter weapon a /Rt secondary or Rt/ hero.

There are at least three different secondaries in all those support skills, not to mention that those skills work just as well without Barrage.

He never says use all...just a list of skills that go well with it

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Interrupts don't mix with Barrage, you can use either, but not both.

ehh except for gdw ofc or one or two on your bar for key skills

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Anyway, you're just confirming what I said earlier, you need to dedicate many more skill-slots to make barrage worthwhile.

Worthwhile compared to what?

Amy Awien · Jul 22, 2010, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

... becomes effective when used as AoE in a physical heavy party that utilizes physical buffs such as Orders. ....

You could fit into a physway team, but it is only effective in a such a dedicated setup, even if other characters may profit from the same support, Barrage requires a lot of supportive skills to become effective.

Regulus X · Jul 22, 2010, 07:17 AM // 07:17

I'd LOVE to see Barrage actually be a... y'know... AOE? I mean the name SCREAMS AoE, yet Incendiary Arrows got it beat. Pretty illogical if you think about it.

Also, go look at that new GW2 ranger video and play the one that says "Barrage".

Now, THAT'S... what Barrage is supposed to be!

Now, look at GW1s Barrage... ..nuff sedd?

/signed for Barrage buff: Remove No-Prep clause and increase aoe range to foes within the area. PvE's s'posed ta be OPd. Just look at hard mode. All monsters are OPd, so why not the players as well? Let players have their fun. Give ranger fans the Love they deserve!

Tenebrae · Jul 22, 2010, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

/signed for Barrage buff: Remove No-Prep clause and increase aoe range to foes within the area. PvE's s'posed ta be OPd. Just look at hard mode. All monsters are OPd, so why not the players as well? Let players have their fun. Give ranger fans the Love they deserve!

Yeah lets make Cyclon axe +20 and AoE , and now we are at it lets make all sins dual attacks AoE and and <insert mindless overpowered suggestion> ..... just because HM monsters are OP !

/irony off

Whats the point ? everyone using Ranger Heroes with 2 skills ? Barrage , Prep , you with GDW and Ebsoh + Orders Necro Hero = I win button ? cmon ...... lets not make GW even easier for F sake.

wilson · Jul 22, 2010, 11:48 AM // 11:48

/not signed
There was a time when playing GW was a challenge. Just wait for GW2, where every bow attack comes with AoE.

Cuilan · Jul 22, 2010, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I would have thought rangers would love Barrage and their other multi-attack skills. They offer them a lot of room on their skill bars.

Bandwagon · Jul 22, 2010, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Honestly rangers need a skill update since many of the skills in several attribute lines are just borderline useless and only narrow skill choices for bar creation. If the update targets AOE, awesome, if not, there is always barrage/volley anyway.

reaper with no name · Jul 22, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You could fit into a physway team, but it is only effective in a such a dedicated setup, even if other characters may profit from the same support, Barrage requires a lot of supportive skills to become effective.

Never said Barrage was good independently. But the same can be said for Hundred Blades. And unlike Hundred Blades, it is useful in more than one such setup. GDW is another example that has been brought up (one that I'll have to try sometime

).

X Dr Pepper X · Jul 22, 2010, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Awful trolling regulus x...

Barrage is fine. Options other than barrage for Bow AoE are pitiful.

They just need to change around 4-6 non elite bow skills to better include modest AoE of 2-3 targets per shot and incorporate decent preparations with them well. Wilderness survival is next to useless in PvE. Revert Incendiary Arrows back to its original pre nerf state as a PvE split skill. And maybe change a 1-2 more elite bow skills to a decent AoE functionality.

gremlin · Jul 22, 2010, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Would you

1 choose a ranger as your main character

2 or use one to collect all the game titles

3 use one for solo farming either normal or hard mode.

if the answer the above is no then they need buffing.

If your trying to sell a game based on there being 10 character classes people are going to suppose that there are uses for those 10 classes and that none will be significantly weaker than the others.

Players come to these type of games with character ideas based on fantasy films and books.

I assumed after playing the pre-searing that there would always be hordes of undead for me to smite with holy damage.

I assumed that rangers would be superb wilderness fighters well able to survive alone

I was wrong

The original differences between the character classes has narrowed considerably and the main reasons for taking many of them has disappeared.

Warrior Necro Assassin Elementalist Ritualist Mesmer all excellent classes I use them all.

Paragon Dervish Ranger I have them and do use Dervish a little but mainly these three gather dust.

Monk always needed but wouldn't want to be one

Mintha Syl · Jul 22, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Would you

1 choose a ranger as your main character

2 or use one to collect all the game titles

3 use one for solo farming either normal or hard mode.

if the answer the above is no then they need buffing.

My answer is yes for the first two. But not for this I don't think they need buffing. But I still don't see how changing barrage like that would help in anyway.

Amy Awien · Jul 22, 2010, 06:21 PM // 18:21

QUOTE=reaper with no name;5201757]Never said Barrage was good independently. But the same can be said for Hundred Blades. [/QUOTE]

True enough, a valid point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Your picky semantic technicalities are a subtle gesture that you can't make an effective counterargument and are averting the point. Weak trolling.

So, you resort to personal remarks rather then offering decent arguments because I somehow don't don't offer arguments? It's always interesting to see how people can become abusive and then blame their victims for their misbehaviour.

Splinter weapon is the skill that does most of the damage, not Barrage. And splinter weapon does that job as well without Barrage. Not a semantic technicality in there.

And now, as far as you are concerend, Ploink.

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Take a few secs...pull them well...

Just pulling, with a bow is not going to ball them in HM, unless they're all casters. You need someone to manipulate melees. Besides, enemy groups are usually too small to make Barrage worthwhile, or any adjacent AoE for that matter.

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Uhmmm...name one...that can deal as much damage... to an unlimited number within the area...with such a short cycle time and low energy...that doesn't require them to not move for the time of the effect...

The request was for 'nearby', not 'in the area'

Destructive was Glaive - and it has an additional bonus side effect.

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ehh except for gdw ofc or one or two on your bar for key skills

You can't time the knock-downs like you can with DS/SS when you need to interrupt specific skills. You can bring DS/SS but you can't interrupt with them when you're spamming skills, like barrage. So it's either spamming barrage and missing the key skills or stop spamming barrage to hit a key skill.

A caster with less frequently used, but harder hitting spells is in a better position when it comes to mixing interrupts with damage skills.

Regulus X · Jul 22, 2010, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Barrage buff != InstaWin

Do rangers currently see the light of day in PvE? I thought not.

/BuffBarragePvE

Cuilan · Jul 22, 2010, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Would you

1 choose a ranger as your main character

2 or use one to collect all the game titles

3 use one for solo farming either normal or hard mode.

if the answer the above is no then they need buffing.

If your trying to sell a game based on there being 10 character classes people are going to suppose that there are uses for those 10 classes and that none will be significantly weaker than the others.

Players come to these type of games with character ideas based on fantasy films and books.

I assumed that rangers would be superb wilderness fighters well able to survive alone

I was wrong

This is the dumbest thing I've read on this forum this month. Guild Wars wasn't designed to be a solo game and why would attempt max titles or main a character I don't enjoy as well. Nothing to do with buffs.

Amy Awien · Jul 22, 2010, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

... Guild Wars wasn't designed to be a solo game ...

So, if Guildwars wasn't designed to be a solo game but - and I assume you imply this - designed to be played in teams of people, then why aren't classes/professions properly balanced so that characters of any class are accepted in those teams of players for which it was designed?

End · Jul 22, 2010, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Just pulling, with a bow is not going to ball them in HM, unless they're all casters. You need someone to manipulate melees. Besides, enemy groups are usually too small to make Barrage worthwhile, or any adjacent AoE for that matter.

Well...can't help ya if you can't manage to ball foes. But yeah...it can be difficult sometimes in hm

Quote:

The request was for 'nearby', not 'in the area'

Sorry...bad choice of terms...I mean...in the area to cover aoe spells in general as in ones that have an area affect not thinking about the mechanic involving the word

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Destructive was Glaive - and it has an additional bonus side effect.

requires you to be close in battle with a skill intended to be used on a char with 60 armor....

really not going to be used outside of niche farming builds...

try again

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You can't time the knock-downs like you can with DS/SS when you need to interrupt specific skills. You can bring DS/SS but you can't interrupt with them when you're spamming skills, like barrage. So it's either spamming barrage and missing the key skills or stop spamming barrage to hit a key skill.

its a matter of opportunity cost

if something...just used the main skill you wanna rupt...and you managed to say dshot it...and it originally had a 5 sec recharge...it will probably be dead before it uses it again so your free to spam

however, if something has a spell you need to rupt and its getting close to when it will recharge...be wary about the spamming

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A caster with less frequently used, but harder hitting spells is in a better position when it comes to mixing interrupts with damage skills.

no reason you can't be just as good...you just gotta think a bit more then they do

Cuilan · Jul 22, 2010, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

So, if Guildwars wasn't designed to be a solo game but - and I assume you imply this - designed to be played in teams of people, then why aren't classes/professions properly balanced so that characters of any class are accepted in those teams of players for which it was designed?

Excuse me while I go in Del-mode. It's because the game has/had balance derp issues and players with bias derp reguardles of this topic. You should already know about people's perception, etc. for someone who joined a GW forum in 06.

Amy Awien · Jul 22, 2010, 09:49 PM // 21:49

derp? Del-mode?

It's perception that decides who can join, and it doesn't matter one bit if that perception is realistic or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Well...can't help ya if you can't manage to ball foes. But yeah...it can be difficult sometimes in hm

I still have to learn how to ball three foes together so you can hit 7 of them :P

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... try again ...

:P Not really, question was answered and I am not going to dig through hundreds of skills to list those that are more effective, with all the restrictions and bonusses they may have to make selection even easier.

Besides, I specifically choose to interpret your request as 'in-the-area' so that I didn't have to dig through hundreds of 'adjacent', 'nearby' and 'in-the-area' AoE skills and could limit myself to the smaller category of 'in-the-area' :P

But hey, popping in from the top of my head, Death Nova, 5 E, no recharge, some 100+ damage. More damage - even when with some delay - shorter recharge and when properly used it is usually brought to your target(s) so there's no need to walk there yourself.

Quote:

its a matter of opportunity cost

if something...just used the main skill you wanna rupt...and you managed to say dshot it...and it originally had a 5 sec recharge...it will probably be dead before it uses it again so your free to spam

Well, you know by the time I'm through rupting them so many of them died that the rest ain't adjacent anymore

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... when it will recharge...

If it recharges so quikcly it should be nerfed.

gremlin · Jul 22, 2010, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

This is the dumbest thing I've read on this forum this month. Guild Wars wasn't designed to be a solo game and why would attempt max titles or main a character I don't enjoy as well. Nothing to do with buffs.

Well I often say dumb things lol

What I was attempting to point out is that whatever GW was intended to be it has changed completely from that aim.

Players do go solo in gw, this was inevitable when the rewards were split between characters so the more in the party the fewer rewards you were likely to get.
Once you have completed the pve part of the game the main reason to play the pve is for some other reward, be it titles or materials.

If you have a ranger and you have played right through the game it's very annoying to find your chance of solo farming depends on a spirit spam build.

Other classes are posting how easy it is to blitz the underworld or solo farm raptors and you cannot because the class you invested all your time and effort in cannot do what they do.

Dumb my comments may be but that is no reason not to make all ! character classes viable for all aspects of the game.

No overpowered just viable GW may be a team game but its also a solo game.

R_Frost · Jul 22, 2010, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Would you

1 choose a ranger as your main character

2 or use one to collect all the game titles

3 use one for solo farming either normal or hard mode.

if the answer the above is no then they need buffing.

If your trying to sell a game based on there being 10 character classes people are going to suppose that there are uses for those 10 classes and that none will be significantly weaker than the others.

yep Ranger is my main, have 3 actually, 2 on one account and 1 on a 2nd account. Ranger was my first character when i started almost 5 years ago. couldnt bring myself to delete him after 2 years when i came to hate the name i gave him so i started another. the ranger is also my main title character with my mesmer, rit, sin and monk in that order. i have one of each profession thats completed all missions in tyria,cantha and elona in NM. the other 5 are my only HM characters. Rangers could use some love but they dont really need alot. just some minor tweaking would be nice and some love to the beastmastery attribute. would be nice to see them remove the after cast or if they wont, eliminate all casting times on attacks that have it, PVE only would be nice for that if they are worried about PvP issues.